Conversation with #darkwynter

(8:41:30 PM) madgamer: great.. it doesn't remember my preferences
(8:41:31 PM) madgamer: oh well
(8:42:44 PM) Logging started. Future messages in this conversation will be logged.
(8:42:57 PM) madgamer: No sign of Subhir?
(8:44:42 PM) flatline0: nope... i think he's pretty on page... i've talked to him quite a bit... you're really the one that is out of the loop since H is just doing QA
(8:45:07 PM) madgamer: hes back now
(8:45:08 PM) flatline0: i set up a side bar in the wiki
(8:45:26 PM) flatline0: you got him?
(8:45:40 PM) madgamer: yea
(8:46:41 PM) flatline0: a's hooking up pidgin on the other system...
(8:47:01 PM) madgamer: cool
(8:47:15 PM) madgamer: I see the sidebar.. thats cool
(8:50:10 PM) Subhir [n=Subhir@ppp-70-132-140-44.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] entered the room.
(8:50:13 PM) Subhir: here
(8:50:20 PM) madgamer: ah good :)
(8:50:29 PM) Subhir: wassup ppl?
(8:50:43 PM) Katla [n=flatline@69.132.194.205] entered the room.
(8:50:53 PM) flatline0: what up yo....
(8:51:05 PM) madgamer: nice so we're all pretty much here..
(8:51:07 PM) Subhir: not much... just got back from shopping
(8:51:13 PM) madgamer: cool
(8:51:15 PM) Subhir: looks like it
(8:51:21 PM) madgamer: Where in Texas are you?
(8:51:24 PM) Subhir: have i missed anything
(8:51:26 PM) Subhir: houston
(8:51:27 PM) madgamer: ah
(8:51:59 PM) madgamer: No I was just looking through the listed milestones
(8:52:00 PM) flatline0: nope... we're just getting set up...
(8:52:18 PM) flatline0: everyone pull up a copy of the wiki if you havn't
(8:52:22 PM) Katla: and I was breaking code
(8:52:39 PM) madgamer: heh
(8:53:08 PM) Katla: yea,whats up with the totaldamage thing...you check earth and water but nothing else
(8:53:13 PM) flatline0: so.. i'm rather in a position of knowing what needs to be done... guess we should start with questions...
(8:53:28 PM) Katla: ahhh pri...
(8:53:36 PM) Subhir: whats the deadline?
(8:53:47 PM) madgamer: Katla: that was because standing boulders and water that are normal temp don't hurt much I think
(8:53:51 PM) flatline0: deadline is under the Oversoul IGF link
(8:54:02 PM) flatline0: Oct 15th
(8:54:17 PM) flatline0: quick walk through...
(8:54:17 PM) Subhir: and what format do they want it in?
(8:54:29 PM) flatline0: they want a full install package for pc
(8:54:37 PM) flatline0: which we should be able to do now...
(8:54:38 PM) Subhir: windows?
(8:54:40 PM) Subhir: linux/
(8:54:44 PM) madgamer: ok..
(8:54:50 PM) Subhir: :)
(8:54:54 PM) flatline0: no specifics that i've seen....
(8:55:04 PM) Subhir: size limits?
(8:55:16 PM) flatline0: p.. still working my way around to creating the Elemental Install package btw
(8:55:16 PM) madgamer: I tried to install Shader Wars in the lab and it ran but when I try to start it it froze.. I think maybe I chose the wrong menu options
(8:55:33 PM) flatline0: where did it freeze?
(8:55:48 PM) madgamer: Right after the game mode selection
(8:55:49 PM) Subhir: does anything other than deathmatch work anymore?
(8:55:50 PM) flatline0: i doubt it... not much to choose from
(8:56:16 PM) flatline0: so it ran then... no, that's probably a bug in our code... maybe there's an asset missing or something
(8:56:26 PM) madgamer: yea that could be it
(8:56:37 PM) flatline0: A is looking up specs on IGF turnin subhir...
(8:56:43 PM) Subhir: thanx
(8:57:16 PM) Subhir: testing
(8:58:15 PM) Subhir: P... when did u try running shader wars?
(8:58:30 PM) flatline0: okay... says we should indicate any middle ware we are using which will be taken into acct in judging. Says this is distinguishable from those who build their own engine... I think we fall into the latter b/c XNA is mostly just asset loading, etc...
(8:58:31 PM) Subhir: n J what fps u getting?
(8:58:33 PM) madgamer: I think it was Thursday or Friday
(8:58:47 PM) Subhir: other than the animation stuff
(8:58:49 PM) flatline0: we can send them patches throughout the judging process
(8:59:03 PM) flatline0: sec... i'm pulling down the repo now....
(8:59:18 PM) madgamer: I actually downloaded it from the website not the repo
(8:59:21 PM) madgamer: the installer
(8:59:22 PM) Subhir: kewl... when do they announce the winners?
(8:59:36 PM) Subhir: J said he's still working on the installer
(8:59:46 PM) madgamer: December 17th
(8:59:48 PM) flatline0: yeh... i got a new computer so i'm checkingout
(8:59:58 PM) madgamer: ok
(9:00:40 PM) flatline0: yeh... i'll have to check the installer... i might have missed something
(9:01:36 PM) flatline0: doesn't seem to be any file size restrictions on the IGF
(9:01:40 PM) Subhir: prob that
(9:01:49 PM) Subhir: thats good
(9:01:54 PM) madgamer: ncie
(9:01:58 PM) madgamer: *nice
(9:02:45 PM) flatline0: yo... btw GDC is on Oct 1st... paper call
(9:03:02 PM) madgamer: When we look at previous winners make sure you look at Student Comp. winners not Main Comp.. I'm looking at them now
(9:03:17 PM) madgamer: I3D conference deadline is in mid-october too
(9:03:20 PM) flatline0: s, p... pulling down the ShaderWars setup... don't have dev environment set up yet so should be able to test at least here..
(9:03:22 PM) Subhir: who's submitting a paper?
(9:03:29 PM) Katla: ok so no size limits that I can see...especially since you can FTP a copy of the game or mail them a disk
(9:03:44 PM) madgamer: I'm submitting one to I3D (extension of my last one)
(9:04:02 PM) flatline0: think i'll prob submit my gpuPhysics paper... take another round at editing on it...
(9:04:12 PM) Katla: we meet all the other requirments for the IGF
(9:04:13 PM) madgamer: To I3D?
(9:04:24 PM) flatline0: i was thinking GDC
(9:04:41 PM) Katla: idk my bff jill?
(9:04:46 PM) flatline0: especially if I can get a few more things done on it...
(9:04:58 PM) madgamer: It would fit I3D as well
(9:05:13 PM) flatline0: which you think would better fit?
(9:05:16 PM) madgamer: http://graphics.cs.williams.edu/i3d08/
(9:05:20 PM) flatline0: thanx
(9:05:34 PM) madgamer: Why not both :P
(9:06:41 PM) flatline0: what i was just thinking... guess your not supposed to multisubmit but i guess that's only a prob if you get accepted at both...
(9:07:13 PM) madgamer: I didn't think GDC was actually an academic conference though
(9:07:38 PM) Subhir: i don't think ur allowed to submit a previously submitted paper to another conference
(9:07:55 PM) flatline0: my application of tech is not strictly academic...
(9:08:02 PM) Subhir: "idk my bff jill?"?????
(9:08:03 PM) madgamer: right
(9:08:12 PM) madgamer: because of all the acronyms we are using :P
(9:08:30 PM) Katla: and yes you can submit a paper to mulktiple conferences as long as there are changes between the first and second
(9:08:49 PM) Katla: it's frowned upon to submit the exact same paper twice
(9:08:51 PM) flatline0: that's not a prob... i'm sure i can make some edits in the 15 days between them...
(9:09:10 PM) flatline0: that's a whole dev cycle in between
(9:09:13 PM) Katla: lol
(9:09:19 PM) Subhir: i'm not sure exactly how they define changed, u better check their websites
(9:09:33 PM) flatline0: i'll research it a bit more... thanx for the info...
(9:09:40 PM) flatline0: back to IGF
(9:09:49 PM) madgamer: right
(9:10:05 PM) flatline0: so... we want a single level...
(9:10:32 PM) Subhir: k
(9:10:40 PM) flatline0: it's in there already... we want to load our assets room by room, keeping 3 to 5 rooms loaded at all times
(9:11:00 PM) flatline0: we'll have to create something of a node graph in the xml to define the connects
(9:11:08 PM) Subhir: how many rooms are there gonna be?
(9:11:18 PM) flatline0: A has been working on a Portal GameObject that will handle triggering the load calls
(9:11:34 PM) madgamer: lets step back a moment.. can we step through how the game is going to play from the moment they start it to when it ends?
(9:11:41 PM) flatline0: sec...
(9:13:00 PM) flatline0: see the IGF HeightMap file for specifics on the terrain layout... not much of it will change
(9:13:28 PM) flatline0: the red areas indicate mod'able terrain... the rest 255 white is not...
(9:13:28 PM) madgamer: Is it on the darkwynter.com svn?
(9:13:38 PM) flatline0: that's an old one ...
(9:14:04 PM) flatline0: A is updating the pic as we speak
(9:15:12 PM) madgamer: can you give me the SVN URL again? I forgot it..
(9:15:32 PM) flatline0: http://darkwynter.com/repo
(9:15:36 PM) madgamer: thanks
(9:16:08 PM) madgamer: ok.. now its gonna take a while.. haven't pulled it down at all here
(9:16:23 PM) flatline0: i've been at it for about an hour and half now...
(9:17:01 PM) Subhir: hehe
(9:17:01 PM) flatline0: bout half way done i think
(9:17:21 PM) madgamer: you mean downloading the repo?!
(9:17:33 PM) Subhir: yup
(9:18:24 PM) madgamer: wow
(9:18:33 PM) madgamer: I guess I'll have to wait a while
(9:18:34 PM) madgamer: oh well
(9:18:42 PM) madgamer: btw, I edited the Industry Info page
(9:19:17 PM) Subhir: nice
(9:20:53 PM) flatline0: okay... we can't get the new pic up... but it's pretty much like the old pic with some more color and a couple cleanups
(9:21:09 PM) madgamer: Is the pic the same as the one in the wiki?
(9:21:14 PM) madgamer: can you put it there?
(9:21:20 PM) flatline0: pretty close... we tried...
(9:21:25 PM) madgamer: oh
(9:21:29 PM) flatline0: can i send a file through this thing?
(9:21:39 PM) madgamer: start at bottom left?
(9:21:41 PM) Subhir: J... where was the updated map?
(9:21:55 PM) Subhir: trunk or shader wars?
(9:21:59 PM) flatline0: GameObjects/HeightMaps... SW or trunk both
(9:22:38 PM) flatline0: wait...
(9:23:09 PM) Subhir: P... update the chaos repo
(9:23:15 PM) madgamer: ok
(9:23:19 PM) Subhir: its in the root
(9:23:24 PM) madgamer: thanks
(9:25:53 PM) madgamer: So you can't mod the black areas either?
(9:26:12 PM) Katla: OK...so you start at the bottom left of the map (and no you cannot mod anywhere except where the map is red)'
(9:26:24 PM) madgamer: ok
(9:26:46 PM) Katla: You go into the first room and hit a trigger on the floor which brings out the little old dude that tells you what you need to do to get out
(9:26:48 PM) madgamer: makes sense to limit it to prevent them from destroying important passageways :P
(9:27:13 PM) madgamer: ok
(9:27:52 PM) Subhir: is this how we are going to teach the player to use their powers?
(9:27:52 PM) Katla: for the first door you have to destroy it with earth particles
(9:28:02 PM) Subhir: got it
(9:28:06 PM) madgamer: ok
(9:28:40 PM) Katla: 2nd room, same dude comes out, and you burn the door down
(9:28:55 PM) Katla: third door is water -erode the cliff face until the door falls
(9:29:02 PM) flatline0: black areas are modable... just not R=255
(9:29:16 PM) Katla: fourth is air - knocka counterweight off the topof the cliff to openthe door
(9:29:28 PM) Katla: 5th is....J?
(9:29:30 PM) flatline0: right... tutorial rooms to teach how to use abilities...
(9:29:36 PM) Subhir: but limited modability... right?
(9:29:50 PM) Katla: yes s
(9:29:52 PM) flatline0: terrain mod is 5th... you have to climb your way out of the pit...
(9:30:02 PM) flatline0: ... to explain
(9:30:17 PM) madgamer: ok
(9:30:20 PM) flatline0: with any R=255 pixels, we add like 100 to the height on both the draw and collision...
(9:30:34 PM) flatline0: you can't modify these, but other than that it's the same...
(9:30:42 PM) madgamer: ok
(9:31:00 PM) flatline0: so you use the terrain mod to get out of the room onto another "modable" surface... still within the boundaries of the nonmodable surface
(9:31:05 PM) flatline0: or... walls
(9:31:29 PM) Subhir: i would suggest not using the R channel... thats what we use in the shader to get the actual height
(9:31:57 PM) Subhir: brb
(9:32:16 PM) madgamer: brb too
(9:32:19 PM) flatline0: i know... we'll need to edit the terrain collision map and shader to get 255 set correctly... also have to limit the terrainmod function
(9:32:26 PM) flatline0: yeh... brb... cig
(9:32:52 PM) flatline0: 5 min recess
(9:33:01 PM) Subhir: k...
(9:33:17 PM) madgamer: back too :P
(9:33:28 PM) Katla: once you have finished with the tutorial level, we then have you fight the survival AI (as in the smart ones) as you wind your way through the maze...then we plan on having a boss of some sort ...
(9:35:15 PM) madgamer: I like that there are multiple paths
(9:35:46 PM) madgamer: Balancing them so theres no one totally easy or totally hard one will be important
(9:38:14 PM) Katla: ib
(9:38:46 PM) flatline0: i had a hack in the shader where i took 255 R pixels and increased the y on the vertex position by 100
(9:39:13 PM) flatline0: walking around through the level then, you inspect the room to see where there might be hidden pathways that are easier to get through
(9:39:18 PM) Subhir: back
(9:39:34 PM) flatline0: there's alway an obvious open pathway till you get to the final boss
(9:39:46 PM) flatline0: there are rooms for a semifinal boss and a final boss btw
(9:39:48 PM) madgamer: we should give a different texture to modable terrain.. not too different.. but enough to notice
(9:39:55 PM) flatline0: the last one is the only one that is hidden
(9:40:29 PM) Katla: also. J and I redisigned the controller again
(9:40:38 PM) Subhir: dude... thats why the center of the map is above the ground... because ur using the R channel for un-modable terrain and for terrain height
(9:40:56 PM) Subhir: use a diff channel
(9:41:11 PM) Katla: the players will have a map that they can look at
(9:41:25 PM) Subhir: a mini-map
(9:41:36 PM) Katla: yeah
(9:41:45 PM) flatline0: I was going to use the same channel b/c we want 255 to be both drawn and collided at +100 ...
(9:41:46 PM) madgamer: ok, will it show the red parts too?
(9:41:51 PM) Subhir: that should be a simple sprite draw
(9:42:01 PM) flatline0: so i dont' really see why we wouldn't use the same channel... otherwise it's confusing
(9:42:04 PM) Katla: but not with parts of it hidden....to much math
(9:42:24 PM) Subhir: i'm not getting u J
(9:42:58 PM) flatline0: the minimap prob shouldn't show the modable areas...
(9:43:17 PM) flatline0: okay... what reasons are there for using two different channels?
(9:43:36 PM) flatline0: why not just change the coding to say 255=r is +100
(9:44:11 PM) Subhir: so the red parts are at the top of the terrain
(9:44:14 PM) Subhir: ?
(9:44:25 PM) flatline0: edit the draw shader... and edit the terrain collision checks and it's done right?
(9:44:41 PM) flatline0: the red parts are at like 254...
(9:44:55 PM) Subhir: isn't simpler to just change the red color to a green or blue?
(9:44:59 PM) madgamer: But then the red parts can't have varying heights
(9:45:37 PM) flatline0: doesn't have to be red... i just used it so it was obvious to us as we dev... we can make it anything except 255=r
(9:46:09 PM) flatline0: prob a bad color choice... green would have been more intuative... but it doesn't realy matter as long as r !=255
(9:46:44 PM) flatline0: make sense?
(9:47:33 PM) flatline0: so... the nonmodable terrain should really be 255 red and that's it... in the texture that is... then everything else can be any color
(9:48:42 PM) madgamer: I think what subhir was saying is that since we are using r for the actual heightmap values r=255 would mean modable areas are all super high at all times.. we would need to change the heightvalues to be read from another channel
(9:49:28 PM) flatline0: making it way to complicated...
(9:49:54 PM) flatline0: we only need one color channel... it might as well be R....
(9:50:08 PM) madgamer: then how do we mark something as modable?
(9:50:12 PM) flatline0: so on the R channel, we let everything except 255 be modified
(9:50:28 PM) madgamer: so modable terrain would always have a height of 255
(9:50:36 PM) flatline0: and to give the user some visual feedback... we take everything 255 and raise it by 100
(9:50:42 PM) Subhir: dude... the white background is 255
(9:51:01 PM) flatline0: no... nonmodable is always 255
(9:51:10 PM) madgamer: Ok, so modable will always be high as well?
(9:51:11 PM) flatline0: there is nothing white about the R channel S
(9:51:31 PM) madgamer: I thought it could start low too
(9:51:31 PM) flatline0: no... nonmodable is +100... remember we're in a canyon
(9:51:58 PM) Subhir: i'm saying the white background will also have an R=255 along with G,B=255
(9:52:24 PM) flatline0: yes.. it will... but we don't care about the g and b channels
(9:52:41 PM) flatline0: so strictly speaking in the R channel... one more time in diff words
(9:53:00 PM) flatline0: we want the user to see that the really high canyon walls are nonmodable
(9:53:11 PM) flatline0: so anything that is 255 gets bumped up 100
(9:53:16 PM) flatline0: everything else is modable
(9:53:20 PM) flatline0: ... that's it
(9:53:30 PM) Subhir: k... got it
(9:53:43 PM) madgamer: I thought only the areas marked in red were modable
(9:53:46 PM) Subhir: u don't want the player to start making their own paths
(9:53:49 PM) flatline0: then if something is 254, they look at it and see that it's much lower than the default 255 canyon wals
(9:53:52 PM) Subhir: other way around
(9:54:06 PM) flatline0: sec... phone call
(9:54:09 PM) Subhir: k
(9:54:15 PM) Subhir: P... other way around
(9:54:17 PM) madgamer: ok we keep switching back and forth on this
(9:54:26 PM) madgamer: so Red = no mod? black = mod?
(9:54:31 PM) Subhir: u have to get used to the way J n me chat
(9:54:38 PM) Katla: ignore teh color on the map....pretend the red on the mapis green for right now
(9:54:56 PM) madgamer: the color doesn't matter I just want to know if black is modable or not
(9:54:57 PM) Katla: basically, the canyon walls are just going to be super high
(9:54:58 PM) Subhir: R==255? noMod:Mod
(9:55:02 PM) Katla: yes
(9:55:07 PM) madgamer: ok
(9:55:28 PM) madgamer: ok that makes sense
(9:55:34 PM) Katla: so anywhere there is a wall, we make it larger so they cant get on top of the world
(9:55:35 PM) flatline0: r=255 is equal to nomod
(9:55:39 PM) madgamer: so they can't break through the maze
(9:55:42 PM) Katla: right
(9:56:00 PM) madgamer: ok thats fine then
(9:56:05 PM) flatline0: yeh... we do that so they can't get on the top of the canyon...
(9:56:16 PM) flatline0: but that way they can still use terrain mod
(9:56:19 PM) Katla: which obviates the need for a skysphere
(9:56:20 PM) madgamer: but then why are passages blocked by red dots? how do you get past those?
(9:56:24 PM) Subhir: whats next
(9:56:33 PM) flatline0: b/c i picked a bad color evidently...
(9:56:39 PM) flatline0: you terrain mod...
(9:56:51 PM) madgamer: Back to square one -_-
(9:56:56 PM) madgamer: :P
(9:57:02 PM) flatline0: pretend the colors are inverted and it'll make sense... so red is white and white is red
(9:57:26 PM) flatline0: just ignore the map ....
(9:57:58 PM) madgamer: ok I think I get what you mean now
(9:58:00 PM) flatline0: controllers... A will lead
(9:58:01 PM) Subhir: A... u playing solitaire yet?
(9:58:06 PM) Katla: not yet
(9:58:14 PM) Katla: I understand whta j is getting at
(9:58:15 PM) madgamer: Ok, controls
(9:58:36 PM) madgamer: I'll let you finish before asking anything
(9:58:36 PM) Katla: think bioshock
(9:58:52 PM) Katla: right hand is direct attack, left is AOE attack
(9:58:57 PM) flatline0: why break tradition?
(9:59:05 PM) Subhir: heh
(9:59:17 PM) madgamer: go on
(9:59:19 PM) Katla: swap with the bumpers and can hold them down to cycle around the elements
(9:59:29 PM) Katla: move and look areteh same
(9:59:51 PM) Katla: buttons are jump, interact with, map and tab
(10:00:04 PM) Katla: tab pulls up your stats on the level
(10:00:12 PM) Katla: nutshell...questions?
(10:00:20 PM) madgamer: Why do we need AoE?
(10:00:30 PM) madgamer: I think we are adding more complications
(10:00:31 PM) Subhir: J...
(10:01:13 PM) flatline0: b/c (i haven't 100% figured this out yet so don't kill me) we can do the standard DA attack methods with the gpuParticles, and also evironmental attacks, similar to the way ShaderWars is working right now
(10:01:39 PM) flatline0: so we rain hail or fire from the sky using something like the terrainMod texture to target with
(10:01:54 PM) flatline0: open up the gpuPhysics floodgate on their asses from above
(10:01:56 PM) madgamer: But I am talking from a pure gameplay standpoint.. it seems like extra stuff that 90% of people won't even use
(10:02:13 PM) Katla: you can play bioshock with just guns...
(10:02:30 PM) madgamer: I see what you mean
(10:02:33 PM) flatline0: it's good gameplay... you can hit a grooup of enemies more efficiently that way...
(10:03:04 PM) flatline0: also a good mechanism for stuff like earthquake attacks if we get there...
(10:03:43 PM) madgamer: I'm concerned that it seems like scope creep
(10:04:21 PM) Subhir: at this point... everything we are going to do is scope creep
(10:04:23 PM) madgamer: We are already giving them lots of choices.. do they need anymore anyway?
(10:04:33 PM) madgamer: right so why add even more to the mix?
(10:04:33 PM) flatline0: it might be... i have some work to finish in gpuPhysics before we can determine whether it's a viable option... theoretically though, if we can shoot a flurry of particles at you from the player's position, we can do it from the sky as well
(10:04:44 PM) flatline0: b/c it's cool... why else?
(10:04:55 PM) flatline0: i mean... visually
(10:05:34 PM) madgamer: I think we need to narrow the focus a bit and not get carried away, I agree it would be awesome but it would be more awesome to get the DA right first
(10:05:42 PM) flatline0: i don't think it's that much of an extension to what we plan for DA... if it becomes too complicated, it's not requisit... remember we're doing this one for ourselves and no one else
(10:05:54 PM) madgamer: the "because its cool visually" is what got us a lot before
(10:06:17 PM) flatline0: the "we're going to build a AAA game" is what got us a lot before
(10:06:32 PM) madgamer: If we want even a remote chance to win anything, we need to build for players not ourselves
(10:06:38 PM) flatline0: most of the work is really behind us...
(10:06:55 PM) flatline0: i agree...
(10:07:04 PM) Katla: someone has been listening to Dr Y again...
(10:07:22 PM) madgamer: I say it because its true
(10:07:27 PM) Katla: joke, p
(10:07:30 PM) madgamer: :P
(10:07:34 PM) flatline0: he's right.... so what's the concensus on whether we think this type of system would be liked by players?
(10:07:45 PM) flatline0: regardless of tech challenges...
(10:08:16 PM) flatline0: i think... with 10 AI's attacking you around the room, you're going to want the AOEs to hit groups of AIs
(10:08:17 PM) Subhir: i say aoe's should be the last thing on the list of things to do
(10:08:25 PM) flatline0: i'm good with that...
(10:08:33 PM) madgamer: Even terrain mod was sort of a "oh cool.. what do I do with it?" for lots of people before (granted that will change now that they can't fly everywhere).
(10:08:33 PM) Katla: ...I really really like bioshocks system....sothis would be a natural setof attacks based on that....
(10:08:37 PM) madgamer: I agree with Subhir
(10:09:05 PM) madgamer: Yea but we already have Plasmids.. they are our DA
(10:09:10 PM) flatline0: yeh... fortunalty we've founda way to integrate it into the gameplay.. terrain mod that is...
(10:09:20 PM) flatline0: hidden doors and having to mod your self out of rooms
(10:09:31 PM) madgamer: yea
(10:09:51 PM) Katla: well, we also are dumping the temperature amd sze thing...
(10:09:57 PM) madgamer: We sort of have a mix of Plasmids and Guns.. Fire is more like a gun since its a straight laser.. but Water is like a plasmid
(10:09:57 PM) flatline0: somethings take a while to mature though... i agree.. so i'll keep working on it in the background and when we think it's ready we'll release, regardless of if it's for IGF or later on....
(10:10:02 PM) madgamer: good idea
(10:10:31 PM) flatline0: using gpuParticles... we don't need size anymore... and temp was more of a visual effect thing all along anyway...
(10:10:38 PM) madgamer: The size/temp was another feature most people didn't use anyway
(10:10:48 PM) Subhir: true
(10:10:56 PM) Katla: just put it on max size and go for it
(10:11:07 PM) madgamer: Although lava was cool
(10:11:15 PM) Katla: lava is cool
(10:11:20 PM) madgamer: not max :P something in the middle
(10:11:23 PM) flatline0: well... we're using a stream of really small particles... so size is irrelevent b/c you just open up the stream
(10:11:30 PM) madgamer: We could still do hot/cold.. just binary
(10:11:37 PM) Katla: no, no, that'swhat the players do now
(10:11:57 PM) flatline0: hot/cold isn't integral to gameplay... serves no function really
(10:12:03 PM) madgamer: true
(10:12:14 PM) madgamer: I guess I'm falling in the same trap there :P "its cool visually"
(10:12:17 PM) flatline0: size is irrelevent b/c we use lots of small particles instead of one
(10:12:51 PM) madgamer: I do like how you said earth particles slowly build up terrain where they hit and water erodes it
(10:13:41 PM) Katla: we are arguing...
(10:13:51 PM) madgamer: oh boy
(10:13:54 PM) flatline0: she thinks cold doesnt hurt
(10:14:00 PM) Katla: i didnt say that
(10:14:01 PM) madgamer: of course it does
(10:14:08 PM) flatline0: i said... take a super cooled rock and put it on your skin...
(10:14:13 PM) Katla: i said lava would hurt more than an ice cube
(10:14:13 PM) madgamer: medium doesn't unless it has velocity though
(10:14:21 PM) madgamer: true
(10:14:26 PM) flatline0: right... but not frozen nitrogen
(10:14:37 PM) Subhir: ya
(10:14:41 PM) madgamer: That was the main thing with hot/cold.. different damage and velocity
(10:14:43 PM) Katla: ugh whatever...irrelevant
(10:14:52 PM) Subhir: anyhow... lets drop it
(10:14:56 PM) madgamer: agreed
(10:15:02 PM) flatline0: yeh... and average temp stuff is irrelevent, so it might as well all be the same
(10:15:09 PM) madgamer: yea
(10:15:12 PM) flatline0: skyplane
(10:15:27 PM) Subhir: J... have u figured out how to get the gpuphysix to mod the terrain based on the particles on it?
(10:15:33 PM) madgamer: We can just assume that water will always be painfully hot
(10:16:12 PM) flatline0: if we reduce the complexity of our elements by making them rather homogenous, then we can use different elements than just our earth, water, wind stuff....
(10:16:15 PM) madgamer: Katla: have you found the chemical thrower weapon yet?
(10:16:24 PM) flatline0: change the texture and a couple properties and you have a whole list...
(10:16:25 PM) madgamer: That works just like we want in our game
(10:16:44 PM) Subhir: ya... but u have to alter the heightmap after some time
(10:16:44 PM) Katla: in BS? yes
(10:16:45 PM) madgamer: true but what else?
(10:16:47 PM) madgamer: yea
(10:17:07 PM) madgamer: I have yet to use it though
(10:17:12 PM) flatline0: what do you mean S?
(10:18:04 PM) madgamer: Anyway so controls, we decided basically just to have Direct attack and element switching for now.. and when you said putting move and look on the same stick.. do you mean it will be impossible to look up and down?
(10:18:14 PM) flatline0: i'm just throwing that out btw... like... as we go... if we want to set properties that some elements are corrosive, some are toxic, etc... not part of milestones... just leading direction
(10:18:23 PM) Katla: no no - look and move stay where they were
(10:18:25 PM) madgamer: ah ok
(10:18:31 PM) Subhir: once earth particles turn into terrain, the player shouldn't get damage from them
(10:18:33 PM) madgamer: OH ok
(10:18:45 PM) madgamer: When you said "are the same" I read it wrong
(10:18:55 PM) flatline0: no... direction and camera controls are the same
(10:19:08 PM) madgamer: alright
(10:20:19 PM) madgamer: let me make a controls page on the wiki
(10:20:28 PM) flatline0: we're still working on milestones for all this... and i don't think we should be deving them quite yet... more so, we're just trying to clean up the code and get the base architecture set up for installing the milestones when we get to them...
(10:20:31 PM) flatline0: go for it P
(10:20:58 PM) Subhir: when is cleanup happening?
(10:21:17 PM) flatline0: A is specifically working on getting portals installed... i'm working on rearranging to support gpuPhysics the way we want to...
(10:21:24 PM) flatline0: cleanup is happening everyday for me...
(10:21:43 PM) Subhir: i mean a no dev... clean up
(10:21:55 PM) flatline0: just trying to comb through the code as much as possible and get stuff back to proper form after our preturnin hack fest
(10:22:21 PM) flatline0: dev starts really beginning this next week...
(10:23:29 PM) Subhir: ok... how much of the old stuff are we keeping and what are we removing... lets make a list
(10:24:09 PM) flatline0: really... we need to work on distinguishing the difference between standard GamesObjects (terrain, Player), stand alone props (portal, nongeneric props), generic props , and gpuObjects
(10:25:02 PM) flatline0: standard is so specific that it needs it's own individual loading... stand alone are only <10 in the game type stuff with specific functionality like opening the door
(10:25:20 PM) flatline0: generic props and gpuObjects might be the same thing... still working on theat
(10:25:56 PM) Subhir: all of these things have the same class structures... they just need to have diff behaviours
(10:26:06 PM) flatline0: multiplayer for the most part can go... want to leave some hooks for networking where appropriate
(10:26:36 PM) flatline0: yeh... i made GameObjectList : GameObject so we can inherit some functionality...
(10:27:11 PM) flatline0: like... xml loading has standard options... should be in GameObject... but we need override so we can add specific params...
(10:27:40 PM) flatline0: that might be enough to handle standards (player, terrain) and stand alone props
(10:27:47 PM) Subhir: which xml loading would u say is the most generic?
(10:28:06 PM) flatline0: then GameObject list extends functionality for generics and gpuObjects...
(10:28:17 PM) flatline0: props probably
(10:28:38 PM) flatline0: a subset of props crossed with player...
(10:29:06 PM) flatline0: well no... player and terrain can just avoid calling base and do everything themselves....
(10:29:10 PM) Subhir: thats the prob... all of our objects have diff loading sequences
(10:29:21 PM) flatline0: so GameObject should probably hold the preamble stuff we do for props, particles, etc...
(10:29:30 PM) Subhir: diff params, diff initializations, etc
(10:30:07 PM) flatline0: if we move the GameObjectList xml loading up to GameObject we should get what we're looking for.... probably leave some of it there but most is reusable
(10:30:44 PM) Subhir: u talking inside/outside the for...loop?
(10:31:03 PM) madgamer: Hows that: http://darkwynter.com/wiki/index.php?title=Controls
(10:31:52 PM) flatline0: the stand alone stuff is uprecedented code... we don't have any examples but need it for the Portal loading.....
(10:32:02 PM) Subhir: looks good
(10:32:33 PM) madgamer: Interact might be better as E actually :P a nod to Half-life
(10:32:40 PM) Subhir: i'm gonna move my trianglestrip drawing code up to gameobject... just the two for...loops
(10:32:49 PM) Subhir: ya
(10:32:49 PM) flatline0: she can figure out what exactly needs to be added in the portal class... we just want to take our standard block o shit like model, textures, locationmap, color values, etc and move it up where she can use it by inheriting GameObject
(10:32:59 PM) flatline0: go for it...
(10:33:30 PM) Subhir: i already have a similarily abstracted function in terrain... just have to move it up to gameobject
(10:33:56 PM) flatline0: then in objLib, we assign the node to the GameObject (add a xmlNode to GameObject)
(10:34:07 PM) flatline0: and call Load methods so it can parse it's own...
(10:34:11 PM) madgamer: By the way, I enabled logging for the chat.. might be a useful resource to throw it on the wiki since its password protected anyway
(10:34:13 PM) Katla: I was more working off FFVIII in my head when Idid the buttons p
(10:34:23 PM) Subhir: sweet
(10:34:33 PM) flatline0: yeh.. we have several copies of stuff like xml and draw code that should be moved up to GameObject
(10:34:45 PM) madgamer: Never played it so you'll have to fill me in
(10:35:25 PM) Subhir: k... whats next on the chopping block?
(10:35:39 PM) madgamer: Lets look at those milestones and add/remove
(10:36:16 PM) madgamer: unless theres something else we should do
(10:36:18 PM) Subhir: we were talking about things that are already in our code that we don't need for this turn-in
(10:36:25 PM) madgamer: oh
(10:36:39 PM) madgamer: sorry misinterpreted
(10:37:17 PM) Subhir: what about that per-pixel lighting code and shadowmapping?
(10:37:38 PM) madgamer: We could remove the shadowmapping.. it would speed up the game a bit too..
(10:37:51 PM) Katla: ok so im as far as I can go on the portals until the gameobjectlist stuff is resolve....nopoint in coding what I cant see and my rotational math isnt good enough to doi it with just guesswork
(10:38:08 PM) Katla: per pixel lighting just needs to die
(10:38:34 PM) madgamer: Isn't that whats killing framerate according to what you guys discovered?
(10:38:38 PM) Subhir: k... i can axe them both by say monday
(10:38:44 PM) Subhir: maybe
(10:38:56 PM) flatline0: i think our best bet is to combine down the functions for lighting, shadows, and bump mapping into a single function... reduce a lot of redundant if/else checks which are horribly slow
(10:39:13 PM) Subhir: multi-texturing? fog?
(10:39:16 PM) flatline0: then... we can change our lighting calc to something similar from there if we still want...
(10:39:23 PM) Subhir: bump-mapping?
(10:39:31 PM) flatline0: bumpmapping should be included as well
(10:39:31 PM) madgamer: I think fog should go
(10:39:37 PM) flatline0: leave fog out for now
(10:39:48 PM) madgamer: out as in cut it or leave it
(10:39:58 PM) flatline0: as long as we're in the canyon, we don't need to hid the terrainlod
(10:40:06 PM) madgamer: ah ok my thoughts exactly
(10:40:16 PM) Subhir: i'm working on something that will make the terrain lod redundant
(10:40:25 PM) Katla: cool
(10:40:46 PM) flatline0: what?
(10:40:52 PM) madgamer: multi-texturing is kinda important but bump mapping never looked quite right anyway
(10:40:56 PM) Subhir: the thing i told u about the other day
(10:41:09 PM) flatline0: which one?
(10:41:16 PM) madgamer: we just have to make sure the terrain patch is never smaller than the room
(10:41:23 PM) flatline0: i'm swimming in ideas here :)
(10:41:24 PM) Subhir: instanced single lod terrain mesh
(10:41:45 PM) flatline0: ahh.. but still keeping the vertLOD function in the shader right?
(10:41:47 PM) Katla: hole shder can go
(10:41:50 PM) Subhir: instanced single high lod terrain mesh
(10:41:52 PM) Katla: i hate that thing
(10:42:11 PM) Subhir: u mean the reading heightvalues part?
(10:42:16 PM) Subhir: np
(10:42:17 PM) Katla: that wil,damnit, be replaced with animations
(10:42:22 PM) flatline0: i'm saying... still using the "onthe fly system" for height values right?
(10:42:28 PM) Subhir: yup
(10:42:42 PM) Subhir: how else can we get terrain mods
(10:42:47 PM) flatline0: okay... just double checking.... wan't sure what you meant by redundant...
(10:43:13 PM) flatline0: old school method... don't really want to move back to that though
(10:43:45 PM) Subhir: what did we decide on bump-mapping?
(10:43:51 PM) madgamer: I think it can go
(10:43:58 PM) Subhir: votes...
(10:44:13 PM) madgamer: As long as we have a nice texture the bump mapping won't matter
(10:44:14 PM) Subhir: i think it should stay... gives the objects and terrain some char
(10:44:28 PM) flatline0: um... so what i'm thinking is we take all 4 (including bump map) and pull them into the same function and reduce complexities....
(10:44:43 PM) Subhir: but we have different techniques under it
(10:44:46 PM) flatline0: then if we want to drop it we can... i like it though... just need to make it faster
(10:44:48 PM) Subhir: or over it
(10:45:34 PM) Subhir: aside... can we drop the res now since we don't have to go 1080p on the 360
(10:45:39 PM) flatline0: we should be able to combine shadow, lighting, bumpmap and multitexture into the same function and apply it to all...
(10:45:57 PM) flatline0: not the shadow map pass... but the draw call
(10:46:03 PM) Subhir: u want to multi-texture the player, skysphere, props and particles?
(10:46:39 PM) madgamer: yea it would add more than it would reduce that way
(10:47:06 PM) Subhir: i'm pretty sure multi-texturing has the most if...else statements in it
(10:47:55 PM) flatline0: should be able to wrap it with checks if we don't want to multitexture...
(10:48:17 PM) Subhir: we have diff techniques for that
(10:48:26 PM) flatline0: maybe we have 2 diff shaders too... terrain, and everything else
(10:48:41 PM) Subhir: props use 6 textures...
(10:48:55 PM) flatline0: they don't really need to... why?
(10:49:05 PM) Subhir: they do now
(10:49:26 PM) Subhir: earth-hot/cold, air-hot/cold, water-hot/cold
(10:49:32 PM) Subhir: plus another 6 bump-maps
(10:49:40 PM) madgamer: we won't need hot/cold
(10:49:53 PM) Subhir: thats still 3 textures as opposed to how they were
(10:50:08 PM) Subhir: i mean opposed to how the other objects are drawn
(10:50:48 PM) madgamer: You mean if we combine the shaders
(10:50:50 PM) Subhir: hang-on... what was the concensus on bump-mapping
(10:50:52 PM) flatline0: we'll need to give each gpuParticle type it's own textures... but we can drop the hot cold stuff
(10:51:00 PM) flatline0: i'd like to keep it if we can...
(10:51:09 PM) madgamer: lets keep it for now
(10:51:29 PM) Subhir: u can't give them their own textures... they are instanced
(10:51:31 PM) madgamer: need better more noticeable bumpmaps though
(10:51:45 PM) Subhir: thats easy to do
(10:51:51 PM) flatline0: sharpen filtermight do that...
(10:51:55 PM) madgamer: yep
(10:52:28 PM) Subhir: ok... now multi-texturing... final decisions
(10:52:58 PM) madgamer: I think we need to keep that to make the terrain look more interesting.. plus if we want a different texture for non-modable terrain
(10:53:03 PM) Katla: yes
(10:53:10 PM) flatline0: keep...
(10:53:11 PM) Subhir: i vote for simplifying it... maybe reduce the number of textures being used and complexity
(10:53:19 PM) flatline0: i agree....
(10:53:23 PM) madgamer: yea thats doable.. how many is it now?
(10:53:42 PM) flatline0: i think (except for terrain maybe) only two textures and two bumpmaps per object
(10:54:29 PM) flatline0: prob only need one for many things, but we can get soem really cheap effects by moving the textures at different vectors so be nice to keep as default...
(10:54:35 PM) Subhir: ok... are we agreed on simplify?
(10:54:42 PM) flatline0: yeh...
(10:55:20 PM) Subhir: terrain - 4 textures, particles - 6, everything else either one or 2
(10:55:30 PM) Subhir: this is not counting bump-map textures
(10:55:42 PM) madgamer: We don't have hot/cold so particles are just 3
(10:55:58 PM) Subhir: well if fire is going to be a particle, then 4
(10:56:12 PM) madgamer: good point
(10:56:18 PM) madgamer: do we want laser or flame thrower
(10:56:27 PM) Katla: flame thrower
(10:56:28 PM) flatline0: s... FPS numbers... getting 15 to 20 looking at terrain, 30, 40, and 50 looking at sky and gpuParticles...
(10:56:31 PM) Subhir: agreed
(10:56:39 PM) Subhir: sweet
(10:56:39 PM) flatline0: from the installation i put on the web
(10:56:46 PM) madgamer: ok so 4 particle textures
(10:57:03 PM) flatline0: P... not sure what's up... i haven't installed dev stuff yet... pulled down the SW from the web and it runs on my box....
(10:57:44 PM) Subhir: next... do we want to keep/use AI_Vision?
(10:58:21 PM) Katla: uhhh i vote yes...but do we really need it?
(11:00:10 PM) madgamer: ok
(11:00:13 PM) madgamer: Hm..
(11:00:43 PM) Subhir: we don't if we aren't going to use it
(11:01:01 PM) madgamer: What benefit would AI Vision have for the game anyway? I guess since we have passageways players can hide without the AI seeing through stuff
(11:01:19 PM) Subhir: true
(11:01:40 PM) madgamer: Currently they will see right through anything
(11:01:41 PM) Subhir: J... quit staring at the gpuobjects and get back...
(11:01:51 PM) Subhir: right
(11:02:21 PM) madgamer: Whats the overhead with getting it to work with the game?
(11:03:07 PM) Subhir: do u mean cost or work involved
(11:03:15 PM) madgamer: work
(11:03:44 PM) madgamer: I guess cost too
(11:03:49 PM) Subhir: i can give u a list of players in the ai's view right now...
(11:04:05 PM) madgamer: Then I guess cost is the main issue
(11:04:11 PM) Subhir: but the ai doesn't know if the player is a human or another ai right
(11:04:13 PM) Subhir: now
(11:04:20 PM) madgamer: ok
(11:04:27 PM) madgamer: that shouldn't be too hard to fix right?
(11:04:28 PM) Subhir: but that can be worked out in a couple of mins
(11:04:33 PM) Subhir: yup
(11:04:33 PM) madgamer: just draw the player
(11:04:51 PM) Subhir: well... u don't want ai's to see thru other ai's
(11:05:06 PM) Subhir: cost = 3-5fps
(11:05:12 PM) madgamer: Their not that big anyway..
(11:05:24 PM) madgamer: the main point is not seeing through objects/terrain
(11:05:26 PM) Subhir: they are the same size as the human
(11:05:56 PM) madgamer: we can cut costs by not drawing AI's in the vision view
(11:06:07 PM) madgamer: especially if theres lots of them
(11:06:24 PM) Subhir: thats a hack... :)
(11:06:31 PM) madgamer: Its a comprimise
(11:06:53 PM) Subhir: i can get the players index back if you want and then check if its an ai or another player
(11:06:58 PM) Subhir: won't take too long
(11:07:38 PM) madgamer: but I really think we don't need to draw the AIs.. its kinda pointless in a small room like that.. every AI will attack you anyway
(11:08:36 PM) Subhir: every ai should attack u as long as they can see and ur not hidden by another ai
(11:08:39 PM) Subhir: but whatever
(11:09:14 PM) madgamer: If the AI thats blocking the view is attacking something.. its obvious theres a player there anyway :)
(11:09:38 PM) Subhir: as i said... whatever
(11:09:54 PM) madgamer: fair enough
(11:11:02 PM) Subhir: btw... is dry interested in our ai vision?
(11:11:57 PM) Subhir: A u there?
(11:12:00 PM) Subhir: J u there?
(11:12:10 PM) madgamer: Yea since you got it working he said once you have a demo we should let him know
(11:12:48 PM) Subhir: what kind of a demo does he want?
(11:12:48 PM) madgamer: right now its not obvious that its happening.. maybe a separate project that shows the AI's view in a small texture on the corner
(11:13:10 PM) Subhir: right now... its not even enabled
(11:13:15 PM) madgamer: right
(11:13:45 PM) Subhir: he wants the actual ai's view? that is just the intermediate process for us
(11:13:58 PM) Subhir: after that we use the gpu to process the texture to find the players in it
(11:14:07 PM) madgamer: He didn't say that I was just suggesting
(11:14:16 PM) Subhir: ah
(11:14:43 PM) Subhir: if he wants i can get it to spit out the player locations to a file maybe with a time stamp or something
(11:14:52 PM) flatline0 left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
(11:14:54 PM) madgamer: If you keep the texture you could show it
(11:15:09 PM) Subhir: writing out a texture to file, kills the framerate
(11:15:43 PM) madgamer: hm.. what about rendering the render-target to a small viewport on the screen?
(11:16:00 PM) Subhir: anyhow the ai view is very similar to the player's view... just overly simplified
(11:16:18 PM) Subhir: as a sprite?
(11:16:21 PM) madgamer: yea the player's color is easy to spot right?
(11:16:23 PM) madgamer: sorta
(11:17:14 PM) Subhir: do me a favor and ask him what he would consider a demo
(11:17:17 PM) madgamer: Or maybe the AI is standing still and when he sees you he turns red or something.. and you can hide behind walls to show that its working.. I dunno
(11:17:21 PM) madgamer: ok
(11:17:59 PM) Subhir: looks like these guys have dropped
(11:18:00 PM) Katla left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
(11:18:04 PM) madgamer: J's internet is down
(11:18:13 PM) Subhir: thot so
(11:18:32 PM) Subhir: do we want to continue this tomm?
(11:19:10 PM) madgamer: that works
(11:19:32 PM) Subhir: actually... can't make it tomm
(11:19:46 PM) Subhir: gonna be out the whole day and then have some ppl coming over in the evening
(11:20:10 PM) Subhir: e-mail and we will finalize a time to meet up again...
(11:20:46 PM) Subhir: sec...
(11:21:12 PM) madgamer: ok
(11:21:42 PM) Subhir: back
(11:21:47 PM) Subhir: what do u say?
(11:22:35 PM) madgamer: phone w/J
(11:24:36 PM) Katla [n=flatline@cpe-069-132-194-205.carolina.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(11:24:40 PM) Katla: jhjh
(11:24:48 PM) Subhir: or u guys meet up and discuss... then i can get the lowdown from J l8r in the night
(11:24:54 PM) Katla: stupid cable
(11:24:55 PM) Subhir: one's back
(11:25:11 PM) Katla: he's working on it
(11:25:15 PM) Katla: what's we miss
(11:25:18 PM) Katla: ?
(11:25:23 PM) madgamer: not much
(11:25:37 PM) madgamer: Thinking of ways to show off the AI vision works
(11:25:48 PM) Katla: Still working on that?
(11:25:56 PM) Subhir: <Katla> uhhh i vote yes...but do we really need it?
(11:25:56 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> ok
(11:25:56 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> Hm..
(11:25:56 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> we don't if we aren't going to use it
(11:25:56 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> What benefit would AI Vision have for the game anyway? I guess since we have passageways players can hide without the AI seeing through stuff
(11:25:57 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> true
(11:26:01 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> Currently they will see right through anything
(11:26:03 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> J... quit staring at the gpuobjects and get back...
(11:26:05 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> right
(11:26:07 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> Whats the overhead with getting it to work with the game?
(11:26:09 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> do u mean cost or work involved
(11:26:10 PM) madgamer: heh
(11:26:11 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> work
(11:26:13 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> i can give u a list of players in the ai's view right now...
(11:26:15 PM) madgamer: I was going to post the log anyway :P
(11:26:15 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> I guess cost too
(11:26:17 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> Then I guess cost is the main issue
(11:26:19 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> but the ai doesn't know if the player is a human or another ai right
(11:26:21 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> now
(11:26:23 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> ok
(11:26:25 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> but that can be worked out in a couple of mins
(11:26:27 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> that shouldn't be too hard to fix right?
(11:26:31 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> yup
(11:26:33 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> just draw the player
(11:26:35 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> well... u don't want ai's to see thru other ai's
(11:26:37 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> cost = 3-5fps
(11:26:39 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> Their not that big anyway..
(11:26:41 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> the main point is not seeing through objects/terrain
(11:26:43 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> they are the same size as the human
(11:26:45 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> we can cut costs by not drawing AI's in the vision view
(11:26:47 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> especially if theres lots of them
(11:26:49 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> thats a hack... :)
(11:26:51 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> Its a comprimise
(11:26:53 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> i can get the players index back if you want and then check if its an ai or another player
(11:26:55 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> won't take too long
(11:26:57 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> but I really think we don't need to draw the AIs.. its kinda pointless in a small room like that.. every AI will attack you anyway
(11:27:02 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> every ai should attack u as long as they can see and ur not hidden by another ai
(11:27:04 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> but whatever
(11:27:06 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> If the AI thats blocking the view is attacking something.. its obvious theres a player there anyway :)
(11:27:09 PM) Subhir: <Subhir> as i said... whatever
(11:27:11 PM) Subhir: <madgamer> fair enough
(11:27:13 PM) Subhir: faster this way
(11:27:17 PM) Subhir: will have to post it again for J
(11:27:40 PM) Subhir: did u drop again?
(11:27:43 PM) Katla: he's reading over my shoulder
(11:27:48 PM) Subhir: ah
(11:27:59 PM) Katla: and yes he was gpu gazing...
(11:28:07 PM) madgamer: heh
(11:28:25 PM) Katla: so ai vision concensus?
(11:28:46 PM) madgamer: I say keep it but simplify even more (can see through other AI)
(11:28:55 PM) Subhir: u heard what we have to say... what about u guys?
(11:29:23 PM) flatline0 [n=Owner@cpe-069-132-194-205.carolina.res.rr.com] entered the room.
(11:29:34 PM) Subhir: star gazer is back...
(11:29:34 PM) Katla: i like it but iss it really worth the cost involved?
(11:29:40 PM) flatline0: keep wanting to write the room name as #define instead of #darkwynter
(11:29:50 PM) madgamer: heh
(11:30:07 PM) flatline0: yeh... i don't think it matters much if we draw the players on the AIVision pass....
(11:30:28 PM) flatline0: props might be nice b/c then you could hide behind them... but i dno't think it's neccessary and would be a lot more expensive
(11:30:51 PM) Katla: the game cheats...im down with that...all games cheat
(11:30:58 PM) madgamer: We can selectively draw props too.. ie, grass is small anyway
(11:31:11 PM) Subhir: props aren't included in ai vision
(11:31:22 PM) flatline0: well.. and if we are only drawing what's in the room, it might not be too bad... have to see....
(11:31:29 PM) madgamer: depends on the kind of prop..
(11:31:30 PM) flatline0: right... saying in theory
(11:31:31 PM) Subhir: mainly because they would have to instanced
(11:32:24 PM) flatline0: gpuPhysics props is what i mean... i plan on creating static and dynamic GpuObjects and using the former to do vegetation....
(11:32:35 PM) flatline0: have to wait to see if i get that far though...
(11:32:46 PM) flatline0: main prob with that is collisoin... there's a couple ways we can do this...
(11:33:01 PM) Subhir: and if u get that far... we'll have to see if we can implement a cheap way of including them in ai vision
(11:33:36 PM) flatline0: we can just not collide with the props in the level (make them small like grass and stuff) and use tracer invisible Particles to check for collisions
(11:34:08 PM) flatline0: or we can work towards doing all the collision on the gpu which would involve creating a darmatter object that was a subset of mass... the properties we need to move to the gpu....
(11:35:12 PM) madgamer: Since we are in a canyon anyway.. there probably won't be giant boulders and trees right?
(11:35:22 PM) flatline0: no...
(11:35:29 PM) Katla: -no boulders...they suck
(11:35:38 PM) madgamer: Although doors might be considered props
(11:35:41 PM) flatline0: just basic simple foliage for now... stuff we don't have to do collision with...
(11:35:46 PM) Katla: grass
(11:35:47 PM) madgamer: right
(11:35:56 PM) flatline0: some we will i guess, like doors...
(11:36:20 PM) madgamer: We need to separate the terms.. props is a bit too general now
(11:36:43 PM) flatline0: so... we should probably start with collision being on the cpu predominatly... we can use the invisible particles to find gpuPhysics objects collisions and the rest of the gpuObjects we don't have to collide with
(11:36:57 PM) madgamer: doors would be special objects which will animate into a non-collidable state once you do something to them (break them, erode them etc)
(11:37:00 PM) flatline0: okay... CpuProps... GpuProps
(11:37:29 PM) flatline0: right now we just ahve doors... but we'll likely need a few other things...
(11:37:38 PM) flatline0: at least, we should support multoples...
(11:39:15 PM) flatline0: so... we do CPU collisions... and i'll keep working on the GPu tech... if we get it running, we can convert by simply creating a darkmatter object as a property of Mass... then create a background process that monitors changes to any Mass object and updates the GPU properties as needed... that goes into a whole section of development with GPU memory managment that we prob won't get to
(11:39:51 PM) flatline0: biggest problems are how to get player on the gpu....
(11:40:52 PM) madgamer: hm..
(11:41:09 PM) Subhir: cig...
(11:41:15 PM) Subhir: keep going will catch up
(11:42:12 PM) flatline0: okay... so aside from player being a minor problem i think...
(11:43:17 PM) flatline0: ... the gpu collision stuff is proven but not tested.. we ran into some issues with the map being rotated differently than another map and got collisions but they were false positives from reading the wrong data point...
(11:43:40 PM) madgamer: ok
(11:44:24 PM) flatline0: it's actually rather difficult to tell b/c all the particles get the same force at every voxel, so right now (last night) i began working on giving each GpuObject (group of like objects) it's own force map (windmap) so we can move them differently and check the collisions through visual inspection
(11:45:05 PM) flatline0: our collision on the gpu is only two dimensional as well... we detect x/z collisions, but two objects on the same Y space would be missed...
(11:45:22 PM) flatline0: this is b/c we are using a texture in a way similar to the lookup map...
(11:45:42 PM) flatline0: by using two collsion maps (SpatialMaps) we can cover all 3 dimensions....
(11:46:08 PM) madgamer: We might need to do that.. not sure though
(11:46:14 PM) flatline0: we do that by referencing the area surrounding an object on both maps... taken from different perspectives
(11:46:52 PM) flatline0: after we get that running... we find our next problem is that we can only cover a 4096x4096 grid b/c of limitations with Render To Texture
(11:47:23 PM) madgamer: oh.. I gues 4096p is a bit high
(11:47:40 PM) flatline0: the voxels in this grid have to be tight enough so that the voxel fits inside the object, or we wind up with two objects potentiall occupying the same voxel on both SpatialMaps and one overwriting the other
(11:48:12 PM) madgamer: right
(11:48:20 PM) flatline0: a room the size we are using is small enough that we could just run collision in a single room and it would be fine... then we can just move room to room
(11:48:55 PM) flatline0: in a larger system, we would need to cover the playing area with a grid of SpatialMaps, like papers layed out on a table touching end to end and side to side
(11:49:41 PM) flatline0: ... or... move the Spatial Maps along with the player to catch collisions around them (one player solution).... this would miss collisions on the other side of the board though
(11:50:19 PM) flatline0: in theory... we don't need collisions except where the players are b/c there shouldn't be any unpredicted motion... only players generate that
(11:50:55 PM) Subhir: right
(11:50:57 PM) madgamer: The AI included?
(11:50:57 PM) flatline0: and as long as objects can't move farther away from the player than the edge of the Spatial Map, we're good (unlike particles bouncing all over the entire board)
(11:51:25 PM) flatline0: AI included... though the AI really doesn't need to be active until the player is within SpatialMap distance anyway...
(11:51:40 PM) flatline0: human i mean instead of player
(11:52:01 PM) madgamer: yea
(11:52:41 PM) flatline0: okay... for room loading...
(11:52:54 PM) flatline0: when a room is two away from you we should load all it's props...
(11:53:10 PM) flatline0: we load the AI when the player enters the room by fading them in like ghosts appearing...
(11:53:32 PM) madgamer: that works
(11:53:40 PM) flatline0: that way we know where the AI are at the moment the human walks in... instead of giving them an entire levels worth of time to roam around and get stuck or something
(11:54:18 PM) flatline0: also... lightens the AI Vision requirements...
(11:54:45 PM) madgamer: indeed
(11:55:00 PM) flatline0: how's everyone feeling on the scope of all this...
(11:55:23 PM) Subhir: worried about the staged loading
(11:55:36 PM) flatline0: your not the only one....
(11:56:22 PM) flatline0: we collapsed a lot of fluff out of it when you were over here... think there's a lot more that can be done to consolidate it to a few simple functions....
(11:56:34 PM) madgamer: We have reduced some scope here tonight.. gonna have to attack that milestone list to get an idea of what might be too much
(11:56:43 PM) flatline0: kind of like what Sudden Drop was doing with loading sections at a time...
(11:56:51 PM) Subhir: talking about the room-vise loading
(11:57:20 PM) flatline0: if we modify the xml to include rooms, then we should be able to pull it straight from there when we hit the Portal triggers...
(11:57:22 PM) flatline0: ohhll....
(11:57:36 PM) madgamer: That included, as long as we don't put too much in a room it shouldn't lock up while loading too much
(11:57:40 PM) flatline0: so in GameObject, I added another method
(11:57:49 PM) flatline0: agreed...
(11:58:04 PM) flatline0: We added the TriggerResponse method...
(11:58:45 PM) flatline0: this could have many applications, but for now what we want to do is have collision take the two objects that collide and call trigger response on them, passing the foreign object into the one that's being processed....
(11:58:45 PM) Subhir: u want to use that to load the objects?
(11:58:55 PM) flatline0: no... just for the Portals
(11:59:11 PM) flatline0: their trigger response to particles will be to take damage
(11:59:24 PM) madgamer: ah
(11:59:39 PM) flatline0: once satisfied, their trigger response to a player collision will be to call the LoadNextRoom methods
(11:59:48 PM) Subhir: k
(11:59:54 PM) flatline0: get that?
(9/16/2007 12:00:22 AM) flatline0: once they take enough damage, they open the door and the room one down is loaded... the current room loads it's AIs...
(12:00:59 AM) flatline0: Portal is abstract enough that we can create Invisible UnLocked doors to do the same thing for areas we don't want to blockade, but do want to set in a diff room
(12:01:26 AM) flatline0: so... basically a bounding box that you walk through that triggers the load mechanics
(12:01:59 AM) flatline0: just that it also has a model hook that we can use for real doors and gates..
(12:02:12 AM) madgamer: ah ok that makes sense
(12:02:32 AM) flatline0: that's A's major project along with modelling a couple of Hands
(12:02:58 AM) madgamer: Well now that we don't have AoE in the game we may not need the left hand though it would just be a mirror anyway probably
(12:03:51 AM) flatline0: so one of us wil need to make a simple edit in Collision to call the triggerResponse method and A can handle most of the rest of it...
(12:04:07 AM) madgamer: cool
(12:04:19 AM) flatline0: correct... we're comp scis... do it once and we can duplicate it to infinity
(12:04:23 AM) flatline0: :)
(12:04:25 AM) Subhir: what else does she need from there?
(12:04:34 AM) Katla: damage
(12:04:44 AM) Subhir: what about the forces?
(12:05:03 AM) flatline0: only part we really haven't solved is the loading and drawing support for nonGameObjectList props
(12:05:34 AM) Katla: well, the question really is do we need to do the damage math inside the portal class or in collision (or wherever the hell it is right now)
(12:05:37 AM) flatline0: and the mechanics of opening the door and removing the collision barrier, which could in theory just be done by reducing boundingsphere.radius to 0
(12:05:52 AM) Katla: boundingsphere dropping to 0 is done
(12:06:00 AM) flatline0: not much math to it... just add 5 till we get to 100 or something...
(12:06:22 AM) Katla: just nee dto do the rotational math....which I cant do until I can see the model...
(12:06:27 AM) Subhir: ya... but where do u want to do it?
(12:06:36 AM) Katla: what the damage?
(12:06:48 AM) Subhir: we aren't doing rotational forces
(12:06:58 AM) Katla: its not really a foce
(12:07:11 AM) Katla: we just take the existing model and rotate it on the y axis...
(12:07:25 AM) Katla: does that malke sense?
(12:07:28 AM) flatline0: in the Portal object itself
(12:07:46 AM) Subhir: r u sure u want to do rotational spins?
(12:07:58 AM) flatline0: we don't have to do it by force... it can be hacked since it's all in the same function... just manually adjust the rotation from 0 to 90
(12:08:02 AM) Katla: it's only a 45 degree turn...
(12:08:05 AM) Katla: cant be that bad
(12:08:16 AM) Katla: or rather 90...
(12:08:24 AM) Katla: or we could just raise the door...
(12:08:33 AM) madgamer: Raising works :)
(12:08:36 AM) madgamer: less pain
(12:08:42 AM) Subhir: or drop into the ground
(12:09:04 AM) Katla: or we could give it a shit load of polygons and break it all to hell and back
(12:09:07 AM) Subhir: or just reduce the scale to 0
(12:09:09 AM) madgamer: or its just a transparent energy shield that goes totally transparent (gradually)
(12:09:13 AM) flatline0: i like droping it into the ground... got a nice sound effect idea for that...
(12:09:18 AM) Katla: ok crazies
(12:09:53 AM) madgamer: We have animation now.. why not use it to just have the door open?
(12:10:13 AM) Katla: cause i dont want to animate a door...
(12:10:27 AM) Subhir: because getting it to work with "props" is gonna be a pain
(12:10:32 AM) Katla: call me lazy...im not an animator...
(12:10:32 AM) madgamer: ah
(12:10:42 AM) madgamer: good point.. we only have it on players
(12:11:04 AM) Subhir: right... thats for a reason... cause the animation lib is a pos
(12:11:04 AM) Katla: the hands on the uh, model, are going to be a big enough piain
(12:11:24 AM) flatline0: b/c the animation and the collision won't work together since we are using boundingspheres... we'd have to next an object within an object....
(12:11:53 AM) flatline0: droping it into the ground is my vote... we can do some texturing on it to make it look like it rusted or is burning down or whatever
(12:12:00 AM) Katla: ok command decision (since its my math anyway)....we will just scale it on the y and drop it down
(12:12:39 AM) madgamer: Still have to rotate it and make sure it doesn't go through terrain when its dropped though.. what if the player modded the terrain in front of it?
(12:12:58 AM) Katla: not if you are just doing the y scale...
(12:13:16 AM) madgamer: Ah :) I see now
(12:13:27 AM) madgamer: good thinking
(12:14:14 AM) Katla: ok...so let'sthrash thru the rest of the milestones
(12:14:24 AM) Subhir: or we could do a scale on all three axis and make it vanish
(12:14:41 AM) Katla: oh my damn...if you dont like the math, fic it ;-)
(12:14:52 AM) madgamer: I like moving it down better..
(12:15:01 AM) Katla: uhhhh fix
(12:15:08 AM) flatline0: don't think we want it all majickal like that... i like it rusting down into the ground... however the math on that works i don't care...
(12:15:32 AM) Subhir: k
(12:15:35 AM) flatline0: translate it... scale it... whatever... we can alpha fade it for all that matters and kill the bounding sphere
(12:15:50 AM) Katla: ok so again, rest of milestones
(12:16:04 AM) madgamer: right
(12:16:06 AM) Katla: actually, how do i need to figure out the damage on the door?
(12:16:28 AM) Katla: just take the mass and the force and subtract that from the doorhealth?
(12:16:38 AM) Subhir: i will give u the damage
(12:16:41 AM) Katla: k
(12:16:44 AM) madgamer: BoundingSphere won't really work for a door though.. Isn't there a boundingbox already built in we can use? (if not its easy to do)
(12:16:45 AM) Katla: beans
(12:17:10 AM) Katla: there is a boundingbox according to j
(12:17:16 AM) madgamer: good
(12:17:43 AM) Subhir: there is a bounding box... but it is going to be a pain to change the collision for that one set of collisions
(12:17:55 AM) madgamer: anyway, the list... limiting terrain mod.. do you mean you can't hold it down to mod?
(12:18:15 AM) Katla: keeping them from getting above the level...
(12:18:20 AM) madgamer: Not really its just HumanDoorCollision
(12:18:24 AM) Katla: jj wants them to have to build stairs
(12:19:05 AM) madgamer: ah.. well It should really be up to them how they build terrain to get up to the next area
(12:19:40 AM) madgamer: But I do think that terrain mods way too fast right now and can be slowed a bit (add a timer delay)
(12:19:44 AM) Katla: there is a way to limit the t mod though....we do it with the size currently dont we?
(12:20:00 AM) madgamer: Yea the size determines how big it is
(12:20:17 AM) Subhir: j was thinking of doing it in steps anyhow
(12:20:45 AM) Katla: it doesnt really matter....we just need to pick a size and run with it...the 255 check will get them where we want them...
(12:20:59 AM) Katla: uhhh keep them that is
(12:21:54 AM) flatline0: steps are an old solution... was thinking somehow we could limit people from getting above the terrain my limitting how muc they could terrainMod based on the surrounding terrain.... we have a better theory with the R=255 solution
(12:22:03 AM) madgamer: Yea we can go with one mod size.. and I think we should use a rectangle instead of a square.. its easier to build a wall that way..
(12:22:22 AM) Katla: either or...
(12:23:00 AM) Katla: ok...so who wants to take out flying...
(12:23:00 AM) Subhir: i'm hungry... gonna grab a snack and be back... still reading though
(12:23:12 AM) Katla: or just limit it to a single jump...
(12:23:17 AM) madgamer: Thats like a two liner :P
(12:23:23 AM) madgamer: I say double jump
(12:23:29 AM) Katla: double is fine
(12:23:29 AM) madgamer: just two jumps
(12:23:33 AM) madgamer: I can do that
(12:23:41 AM) Katla: knock it out...
(12:24:02 AM) Katla: gpu stuff...thats all j
(12:24:04 AM) madgamer: But wait what did we decide about the first one.. I'm still not clear what it means
(12:24:20 AM) Katla: we jest need to set the size
(12:24:24 AM) madgamer: ok
(12:24:34 AM) Katla: playtesting....
(12:24:49 AM) madgamer: should rename that.. are you editing it on the wiki? don't want to overwrite anything you do
(12:25:01 AM) Katla: not editing...reading
(12:25:09 AM) madgamer: ok
(12:25:16 AM) madgamer: I'll edit things as we decide then
(12:25:29 AM) Katla: tutorial rooms are built...just need to add in the gates...
(12:25:36 AM) Katla: and triggers
(12:25:52 AM) Katla: which I am working on/
(12:25:58 AM) madgamer: ok
(12:27:02 AM) madgamer: What about the "terrain collision" one? does that just mean smaller more detailed mesh for LOD?
(12:27:12 AM) Katla: cutscenes....based on the trigger, the dude will come out and talk to the player...should be fairly simplistic to do
(12:27:24 AM) Katla: ask j on that one
(12:27:49 AM) madgamer: Do we want to voice the dude or just text?
(12:27:57 AM) Katla: all the cutscene stuff will be in xml files, the cutscene class should pull out the relevant stuff and run it...
(12:28:07 AM) Katla: voice over...
(12:28:16 AM) madgamer: yea I was thinking that too
(12:28:20 AM) Katla: text if we have to
(12:28:27 AM) madgamer: We need both
(12:28:32 AM) madgamer: or just text
(12:28:33 AM) Katla: yea
(12:28:49 AM) madgamer: Can't have only voice.. whos doing the voice?
(12:28:59 AM) Katla: j and i can do it here
(12:29:03 AM) madgamer: ok
(12:29:06 AM) Katla: he's got voice filters
(12:29:21 AM) flatline0: okay... changing collision is not bad subhir... we just wrap the XNA bounding surfaces into an abstract class...
(12:29:22 AM) madgamer: I was imagining a soft whispery patient voice
(12:29:34 AM) Katla: ok
(12:30:22 AM) madgamer: Who might also make lots of weird jokes that seem out of place :D maybe
(12:30:46 AM) Katla: lol
(12:30:52 AM) Subhir: grasshopper
(12:31:05 AM) madgamer: hehe
(12:31:11 AM) Subhir: wax on
(12:31:16 AM) madgamer: wax off
(12:31:31 AM) flatline0: so basically we watch TMNT and take notes
(12:31:43 AM) Katla: that's karate kid actually
(12:31:47 AM) madgamer: we should break these into individual testable requirements.. to be as thorough as we can
(12:31:52 AM) flatline0: teenage mutant ninja turtles :)
(12:32:04 AM) Katla: cowabunga dude
(12:32:13 AM) madgamer: The new movie was pretty funny
(12:32:36 AM) Katla: havnet seen it...refused to watch it since we go from cartoon to live action to comp anima...
(12:32:37 AM) flatline0: p... can you work with A on the cutscene stuff... we need to integrate some of the menu system functionality with 3D
(12:33:29 AM) madgamer: ok
(12:33:40 AM) madgamer: Shouldn't be too bad.. I hope
(12:33:54 AM) flatline0: i have a rough mockup of it in the xml already...
(12:34:09 AM) flatline0: look in the cutscen folder... everything is in the top level folder now
(12:34:50 AM) flatline0: we should be able to load the scripts and run them by pulling the params... i'll get the loading system simplified and give you hooks where you can trigger your classes from
(12:35:26 AM) madgamer: ok
(12:36:37 AM) Katla: ok....so here is my list (from hell)...1.portals 2. triggers 3. cutscenes 4. pc hands 5. menu screen for difficulty level, credit screen....etc 6. reanimate bunnies 7. gate models 8. time on the HUD 9. Redo health and mana...redo element selection 10. shader for the rabbits
(12:36:54 AM) Katla: ears
(12:37:25 AM) Katla: in a month? noproblem
(12:37:34 AM) Katla: *lies*
(12:37:57 AM) madgamer: The time on HUD is total time elapsed?
(12:38:06 AM) Katla: yeah
(12:38:09 AM) Katla: it's easy
(12:38:18 AM) madgamer: right
(12:38:43 AM) Katla: brb
(12:38:52 AM) flatline0: brb
(12:38:58 AM) madgamer: ok
(12:41:51 AM) madgamer: did some Wiki edits
(12:41:55 AM) madgamer: brb as well
(12:42:56 AM) Katla: ib
(12:46:28 AM) madgamer: ib as well :P
(12:46:49 AM) Subhir: ib
(12:46:54 AM) Katla: cool
(12:46:59 AM) Subhir: J?
(12:47:04 AM) Katla: he is here
(12:47:13 AM) Subhir: k
(12:47:18 AM) Katla: bitching about dr y
(12:47:41 AM) Subhir: back to normal i c
(12:48:09 AM) Subhir: so whats left?
(12:48:33 AM) madgamer: Did I miss anything major from the list on the wiki?
(12:48:34 AM) Katla: high score tracking
(12:48:37 AM) Katla: save points
(12:48:39 AM) Katla: continues
(12:48:49 AM) madgamer: refresh it
(12:48:55 AM) Subhir: is the game going to be long enough to warrant saving?
(12:49:17 AM) Katla: prolly not but if we build it in....wewont have to do it later
(12:49:22 AM) madgamer: don't need saves
(12:49:25 AM) Katla: spacebar sucks
(12:49:37 AM) flatline0: "Continues" are a big thing in video games according to MS
(12:49:42 AM) madgamer: its like the arcades.. gotta beat it in the first sit through
(12:49:55 AM) Katla: what if the ai kills you?
(12:49:58 AM) flatline0: i have a ref article where one of their major peple lists it in the top 5 trends in gaming
(12:50:00 AM) Katla: where do you restart?
(12:50:05 AM) madgamer: This is a time trial type game though
(12:50:07 AM) flatline0: go back to the continue point
(12:50:09 AM) Subhir: i agree with P
(12:50:22 AM) Katla: so go back to the last trigger?
(12:50:51 AM) madgamer: Is it worth it though? the game will probably take like 15 minutes on average
(12:50:55 AM) Subhir: i don't really see our game being that diff
(12:50:59 AM) flatline0: for submittion to IGF it shoud use continues... b/c our judges wont give us 40 hrs of game play
(12:52:07 AM) flatline0: if we want them to play through the whole thing we need the continues so they don't get stuck and quit
(12:52:16 AM) madgamer: Makes it more intense if you cant just restart at the last door.. I think most people will have no problems playing through it..
(12:52:25 AM) Katla: so just go back to last trigger
(12:52:48 AM) Subhir: do we have multi-player?
(12:52:49 AM) madgamer: I guess.. so from a technical standpoint.. how would it work?
(12:53:01 AM) Katla: s - no
(12:53:10 AM) Subhir: k
(12:53:13 AM) Katla: cant really do multiplayer with a plot
(12:53:14 AM) madgamer: Technically we already have all the code but we want to focus on this single player mode for now
(12:53:34 AM) madgamer: Later we could add co-op if we wanted (maybe for later episodes ;))
(12:53:45 AM) flatline0: no... no multiplayer i think.... not for IGF
(12:53:46 AM) Subhir: aight
(12:53:51 AM) madgamer: right
(12:54:12 AM) Subhir: who wants to tackle continue points?
(12:54:41 AM) Katla: not me...i got enough shit to do
(12:54:45 AM) flatline0: i'll take that since it's associated with loading system
(12:54:52 AM) Subhir: k
(12:55:13 AM) madgamer: That makes sense..
(12:55:15 AM) flatline0: i like coop for a future dev... that was another thing in the top 5 list
(12:55:34 AM) Subhir: not for igf tho
(12:55:36 AM) madgamer: Can you link the article?
(12:55:38 AM) flatline0: no...
(12:56:08 AM) flatline0: for IGF we want one very clean level that looks like it could be easily scaled to a full game
(12:56:15 AM) madgamer: Now that I think about it.. continues may not be so hard.. since we are loading the next room fresh anyway.. just put the player at the entrance and then do the load like before
(12:56:30 AM) flatline0: 1st person RPG shooter with a potential for 40 hrs of game play
(12:57:08 AM) Subhir: does the player have all their powers at the start?
(12:57:13 AM) Katla: yes
(12:57:20 AM) Subhir: k
(12:57:28 AM) Katla: the gates will only take damage from the correct element
(12:57:35 AM) Katla: so...no need to limit abilities
(12:57:37 AM) Subhir: kewl
(12:57:51 AM) Katla: already working on that part
(12:57:57 AM) madgamer: yea that reduces our work yet again :)
(12:58:14 AM) Subhir: anything else?
(12:58:23 AM) Katla: having 4 coders reducs your work load
(12:58:50 AM) Katla: sky plane
(12:58:55 AM) Katla: who wants it?
(12:58:57 AM) madgamer: Why a plain?
(12:59:00 AM) madgamer: *plane
(12:59:19 AM) flatline0: sky plane will look better without fog
(12:59:27 AM) Subhir: i thot we're dropping fod
(12:59:28 AM) Subhir: fog
(12:59:37 AM) madgamer: Yea we were
(12:59:38 AM) flatline0: also... no we don't need to limit the abilites.. you just have to use them all once to get past the training levels
(12:59:39 AM) Katla: we are
(12:59:47 AM) Subhir: k
(12:59:55 AM) madgamer: I see what you mean now.. since we are in a canyon we can just use a plane
(1:00:18 AM) Subhir: we can just use a quad then
(1:00:23 AM) madgamer: yea same thing
(1:00:35 AM) flatline0: i'm picturing the septasoul fading in the tutorial levels that comes in, delivers a few lines about what your supposed to do, then fades out
(1:00:39 AM) Subhir: we already have the model for it
(1:01:03 AM) flatline0: yeh... or without even touching the files we could use a large genericCircle which is oriented correctly to work
(1:01:05 AM) madgamer: Yep just gotta place it and texture it
(1:01:07 AM) Katla: just need an alpha fade shder...
(1:01:31 AM) Subhir: thats easy
(1:01:47 AM) Katla: k
(1:02:06 AM) Katla: os it like the shdare to make the bunny earss glow?
(1:02:13 AM) madgamer: don't even need a shader.. just change the alpha value on the model in Draw
(1:02:24 AM) Katla: k
(1:02:40 AM) Subhir: or that
(1:02:50 AM) Katla: oh, then we should be able to do the same in the draw call for the bunny ears...right?
(1:03:02 AM) Katla: just do it based on height?
(1:03:15 AM) Subhir: y do we want glowing ears?
(1:03:16 AM) madgamer: For the bunny ears you can just create a sphere of color or something that radially fades and move it up so its aligned with the ears
(1:03:40 AM) Katla: so the pc can tell when the ai is about to attack
(1:03:44 AM) madgamer: That wouldn't be as easy.. the ears are not a separate model
(1:03:56 AM) Katla: k
(1:04:02 AM) madgamer: We would do that in a shader probably
(1:04:07 AM) Katla: k
(1:04:25 AM) Subhir: most games don't have any indication that ur going to be attacked
(1:04:58 AM) Katla: i know but ive heard enough from the gamers that playtested that they are not 'intmidated' by the ai
(1:05:08 AM) Katla: we have to do something to beef them up
(1:05:17 AM) Katla: make em scary...
(1:05:41 AM) Subhir: we can change their textures
(1:05:56 AM) Katla: good idea
(1:06:04 AM) madgamer: Actually I just realized this would work exactly like the hit shader.. only instead of making it invisible you set the color value to bright green or something
(1:06:17 AM) Katla: oh and most games you are aware that you are about to be attacked....it's just usually done audibly
(1:06:35 AM) Subhir: lets do audio then
(1:06:40 AM) Katla: like the hole shader that sucks?
(1:07:10 AM) madgamer: It can be adapted to make them glow if you want or just do an animation that has audio with it
(1:07:13 AM) Subhir: a nice buzzing sound with increasing pitch... sorta like power lines
(1:07:28 AM) flatline0: we need audio and visual feedback.. that way if someone is on mute they still get it...
(1:07:41 AM) flatline0: i like the electricity sound idea
(1:07:48 AM) madgamer: yea
(1:07:49 AM) flatline0: getting ready to zap you...
(1:07:55 AM) Subhir: hey... we have those red triangles on the tops of ai's heads... what about using them
(1:08:03 AM) Katla: you know,the bunnies have enough verticies....we could have them explode...
(1:08:35 AM) Katla: we do need some sort of hit feedback...blood or something
(1:08:35 AM) Subhir: no... would involve changing their matrices... don't want to go there
(1:08:46 AM) Katla: damn
(1:09:01 AM) Katla: you dont want bunny goop all over the screen?
(1:09:28 AM) madgamer: hm.. yea we do need proper hit feedback
(1:09:29 AM) Subhir: if someone can figure out what those matrices do exactly and how... go ahead
(1:09:42 AM) Subhir: how about a small animation for that?
(1:09:56 AM) Katla: i can do the death animations...
(1:10:01 AM) Subhir: animation called from the trigger...
(1:10:03 AM) Katla: i dont know about the blood though
(1:10:11 AM) Subhir: not blood... do a hit animation
(1:10:11 AM) Katla: not sure how to do that
(1:10:16 AM) madgamer: instead of making a hole we can add a color or texture to the impact point
(1:10:18 AM) flatline0: okay... Portals are in the wiki
(1:10:24 AM) Subhir: k
(1:10:32 AM) Katla: the hit animations are in....sooner or later
(1:10:47 AM) Subhir: then that should be enough with a sound effect for that
(1:11:05 AM) Subhir: didn't we have a grunt sound?
(1:11:12 AM) flatline0: we could texture map the player with blood using the player hole shader up to the point of the animation....
(1:11:27 AM) flatline0: we could also apply blood texture to the ground based on that players location
(1:11:46 AM) flatline0: we still have a grunt sound in there... it's not loud enough
(1:11:48 AM) madgamer: Do we want to add blood though? maybe we shouldn't
(1:11:52 AM) Subhir: how about blood particles???? :)
(1:11:55 AM) Katla: green blood...
(1:11:59 AM) flatline0: actually... no... we changed it to the Hit sound
(1:12:13 AM) madgamer: yea
(1:12:18 AM) flatline0: we could prob do some gpuPHysics particles for blood... do a real nice squirting effect
(1:12:20 AM) madgamer: I guess green blood works
(1:12:33 AM) madgamer: lets not get carried away :P
(1:12:39 AM) Katla: or purple or something...we could 'splatte' it on the HUD...
(1:12:40 AM) Subhir: thats another one of the last things
(1:12:49 AM) flatline0: like Kill Bill 2
(1:13:00 AM) Subhir: i was joking...
(1:13:14 AM) flatline0: you should know better by now :)
(1:13:24 AM) madgamer: I know
(1:13:28 AM) madgamer: Just making sure :P
(1:13:31 AM) Subhir: i'm tired... give me some allowance
(1:13:43 AM) Katla: how much?
(1:13:51 AM) Katla: and why does he get an allowance?
(1:13:52 AM) flatline0: here's $5 worth of good job for ya s
(1:13:54 AM) Subhir: argh
(1:13:55 AM) Katla: wtf???
(1:14:19 AM) flatline0: okay.. you can have $5 of good job to A
(1:14:28 AM) Subhir: k... this is my list
(1:14:29 AM) Subhir: fog - drop
(1:14:29 AM) Subhir: shadowmapping - drop
(1:14:29 AM) Subhir: per-pixel lighting - simplified
(1:14:29 AM) Subhir: bump-mapping - keep
(1:14:29 AM) Subhir: multi-texturing - simplified
(1:14:31 AM) Subhir: AI vision - (only draw humans)
(1:14:31 AM) Katla: you cant even buy an 8ball with that...
(1:14:33 AM) Subhir: Collision.cs - add hook for trigger response after colliding
(1:14:34 AM) flatline0: no more though... i'm not fucking made of good jobs here
(1:14:35 AM) Subhir: Terrain Instancing
(1:14:56 AM) madgamer: Can you put it in the wiki somewhere? like Technical Design
(1:15:11 AM) flatline0: yeh... or milestones prob
(1:15:12 AM) Subhir: then... depending on time... will pick up more
(1:15:35 AM) madgamer: Ah we didn't list assignments on it yet
(1:15:42 AM) Subhir: yup
(1:15:54 AM) Subhir: someone gonna do that or should I?
(1:16:14 AM) Katla: list your own
(1:16:19 AM) madgamer: Maybe we should make it a separate page
(1:16:22 AM) flatline0: drop into the milestone wiki... then we'll pick them up
(1:16:31 AM) flatline0: we have a milestones page
(1:16:41 AM) madgamer: yea its on the sidebar
(1:16:54 AM) madgamer: some of those are already on the list
(1:17:18 AM) flatline0: i'll cross ref the list we had in the ShaderWars write up with that once your done
(1:17:20 AM) Katla: and some of the things are not going to beon the list much longer...we arent doing someof it
(1:17:35 AM) flatline0: brb... coffee
(1:18:18 AM) madgamer: So far I had double-jump and cut-scene draw, I can take Controller and high score tracking too
(1:18:26 AM) Katla: cool
(1:18:51 AM) madgamer: Good thing we have no size limit.. we're gonna have lots of audio files this time around :P
(1:18:55 AM) Katla: once i get the new menu screen done,can you cut that code down too?
(1:19:01 AM) Subhir: done
(1:19:18 AM) Subhir: its on the main igf page
(1:19:28 AM) Katla: not that....the settings onthe page itself - difficulty level,number of ai...etc
(1:19:29 AM) madgamer: oh right the new menus, sure
(1:20:02 AM) Katla: oh shit....we need to find a way to do an uninstall as well
(1:20:28 AM) Subhir: i think a folder delete should be enough
(1:20:35 AM) Katla: k
(1:20:43 AM) madgamer: I'll add mine on
(1:20:52 AM) Subhir: oh... wait... that won't remove xna, dx, etc
(1:20:57 AM) Katla: we also need to do a marketing write up, a installation and rules writeup
(1:21:00 AM) Subhir: leave that to j
(1:21:36 AM) flatline0: i have uninstall support already though the package installer
(1:21:49 AM) Katla: 12. Please provide thorough instructions for judges, including detailed gameplay information and compatibility or installation instructions. (Limit 1500 words.)
(1:22:32 AM) Katla: and no pictures...controller must still be in game along with keybaord mapping
(1:22:38 AM) flatline0: i'll basically run the execProd and do whatever needs to be done... just feed back to me and i'll get it to the right place
(1:22:46 AM) madgamer: edited
(1:22:54 AM) flatline0: assuming noone minds...
(1:23:02 AM) flatline0: mantis is set up too btw
(1:23:47 AM) flatline0: everyone want me to drop the milestones into mantis and run our stuff that way or do we want to try using the wiki to manage milestones...
(1:23:51 AM) flatline0: my pref is mantis
(1:24:04 AM) Katla: mantis
(1:24:13 AM) madgamer: we can do mantis..
(1:24:23 AM) flatline0: we can fill in notes as we go then i'll go back through and collect them for the tech design after we code...
(1:24:39 AM) Subhir: anything
(1:24:46 AM) flatline0: don't really see any point in techDesign before we go in... as long as we're all on the same page...
(1:24:57 AM) Katla: 32 right?
(1:25:09 AM) madgamer: ?
(1:25:13 AM) flatline0: or rather... we have a tendency to do everything in CDD... so then after i can split it up
(1:25:14 AM) Katla: page number
(1:25:27 AM) madgamer: oh
(1:25:28 AM) Katla: sorry...imtired
(1:25:45 AM) Katla: spacebar sucks
(1:25:57 AM) madgamer: me too :P think I'm gonna go to bed..
(1:26:14 AM) Katla: heading that way
(1:26:20 AM) flatline0: yeh... think we're running down here... take your leave as you see fit...
(1:26:35 AM) flatline0: any other new business we shoudl talke about as group?
(1:26:59 AM) flatline0: if not ..... k... meeting adjourned... thanx for calling it P... we got a lot done
(1:27:22 AM) madgamer: np
(1:27:29 AM) Katla: that's it for me,i think
(1:27:30 AM) flatline0: glad to have you all in this with me... thought i'd be building this out myself....
(1:27:30 AM) madgamer: I'm adding the log to wiki now
(1:27:33 AM) Katla: nite guys
(1:27:37 AM) flatline0: l8
(1:27:59 AM) madgamer: night
(1:28:02 AM) Katla: apparently i am chooped liver, as far as j is concerned
(1:28:12 AM) flatline0: yeh... anyway...
(1:28:33 AM) flatline0: okay... what still needs to be written up in wiki...
(1:28:37 AM) flatline0: ?
(1:28:50 AM) Subhir: ciao all
(1:28:57 AM) flatline0: l8
(1:29:03 AM) Katla left the room.
(1:29:05 AM) flatline0: you out p?
(1:29:38 AM) madgamer: mostly.. trying to get the chat log into wiki but can't figure out how to make it put returns without having to put an extra new line between each line
(1:30:17 AM) Subhir: i have no idea
(1:30:35 AM) Subhir: i'm out...
(1:30:39 AM) madgamer: see ya
(1:30:42 AM) flatline0: don't... should be able to upload it as a file
(1:30:49 AM) flatline0: i have a copy... i'll take care of it...
(1:30:50 AM) madgamer: ah
(1:30:54 AM) Subhir: l8r
(1:31:00 AM) Subhir left the room (quit: "Leaving").
(1:31:02 AM) madgamer: did you enable log as well?
(1:31:02 AM) flatline0: you up for a sec... i'm goign to go look for it...
(1:31:23 AM) flatline0: i just saved a copy of the conversation... though I don't have all of it now that i rememeber we crashed out...
(1:31:35 AM) flatline0: go to Conversation and hit save as... gives an html page
(1:31:38 AM) flatline0: then send it to me
(1:31:39 AM) madgamer: I have the whole thing in .txt
(1:31:49 AM) madgamer: Ah that would be more useful